Curse

sama · Apr 23, 2005, 06:15 AM // 06:15

i must say, this is a really entertaining thread. [/offtopic]

i never seen any necro primary used for high lvl pvp. you choose primaries based on primary skill line and benefits. i would have to agree that soul reaping has no signficance use in pvp especially given the usefulness of all the other primary lines.

Ensign · Apr 23, 2005, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Oh, they aren't *useless* in PvP - an Order of the Vampire spam build would likely want to be Necro/* for the level 16 blood, and something like a Protection Monk/Necromancer can make a decent argument for flipping if they aren't using many spam skills. But generally, yeah, Necro primaries don't bring much to the table that a couple well placed secondaries couldn't.

PvE? Same deal. A sizable percentage of the skills you want to use just have duration scale with attribute level, which makes them better secondaries - Shadow of Fear at 12 vs. 8 really isn't a significant difference. The notable exception, of course, is the Death Necro, which wants that 16 Death Magic for level 18 Bone Horrors and more damage from the novas.

Which we've exhausted pages ago.

Peace,
-CxE

funbun · Apr 23, 2005, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Another good way to die is Necro/Ele. I went questing with one guy who had that combo. He kept dying all the time.

sino-soviet · Apr 23, 2005, 02:56 PM // 14:56

All you have to do is look at the skills, which are subpar, and look at the primary attribute, which is the worst in the game. Then the armor, same deal. In fact, only a few skills which Necromancers have are used at all.

Xellos · Apr 23, 2005, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Just about everything that can solo Riverside does so faster than a Wamo. The thing the Wamo does is durability - it can solo it, but it'll take a while. If a Necromancer can solo Riverside (and they can, once they get going), they just steamroll - get an army of 12-15 level 18 Bone Horrors up, and just run roughshod over everything there. The trick is getting started. Also, once you get to more difficult missions with level 28 monsters level 18 Bone Horrors stop looking scary and are just adaquate. But for a mid-level mission like Riverside? Get a bit of momentum from early packs and steamroll.

Oh man, now I'm having second thoughts about making a Necro for farming. What's the standard cookie cutter again? :P

Greentongue · Apr 23, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Please Mr. Ensign Sir,

Could you please critique this build?

========================
Ritual Render

Ne/Ra

Attributes before bonuses:
Soul Reaping (12)
Curses (3)
Marksmanship (12)
Wilderness Survival (0)

=== Soul Reaping ===

=== Curses ===
Rend Enchantments [10,3,30] (Spell) Target foe loses 2..8 Enchantments. For each Monk Enchantment removed, you take 40 damage.

=== General ===
Antidote Signet [0,2,8] (Signet) Cleanse yourself of Poison, Disease, and Blindness.

=== Marksmanship ===
Oath Shot [10,0,20] ELITE (Bow Attack) If Oath Shot hits, all your other skills are recharged. If it misses, all your skills are disabled for 10 seconds. (50% miss chance with Expertise less than 8.)
Read the Wind [5,2,12] (Preparation) For 12 seconds, your arrows move twice as fast and deal 5..15 extra damage.
Concussion Shot [25,1,10] (Bow Attack) If Concussion shot hits while target foe is casting a spell, the spell is interrupted and your target is Dazed for 5..17 seconds. This attack deals only 1..13 damage.

=== Wilderness Survival ===
Nature's Renewal [5,5,60] (Nature Ritual) Create a level 1..8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all Enchantments and Hexes are removed. For 30..126 seconds, Enchantments and Hexes take twice as long to cast. This Spirit dies after 30..126 seconds.
Quickening Zephyr [5,5,60] (Nature Ritual) Create a level 1..8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all skills recharge twice as fast and cost 30% more Energy to cast. This Spirit dies after 30..126 seconds.
Winnowing [5,5,60] (Nature Ritual) Create a level 1..8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, creatures take 4 additional damage whenever they take physical damage. This Spirit dies after 30..126 seconds.

The concept of this build is to use Nature's Renewal to strip enchantments. Then use Concussion Shot and Rend Enchantments to keep them off.
Oath Shot recycles the skills (If it is true that it is under Wilderness and not Expertise.)
Read the Wind makes Oath Shot more likely to succeed and Quickening Zephyr recycles it.
Antidote Signet addresses Blindness.
Having zero is Wilderness Survival keep the Rituals dying quickly so that Soul Reaping returns energy.
Winnowing is swappable but gives an addition Ritual that is handy and can die.
=============================

lhurgrokoyv · Apr 23, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

i think you're bashin the necro a bit too much, sure necro primaries suck donkey but they can actuay be pretty decent on secondary
even though death magic is mostly crap they still can do a little damage with cold damage spells
curses may have some good spells, but most of them are hexes, and there are too many ways to remove hexes
this leaves blood magic and some miscelaneous spells
blood magic has some very good support and solo spells if you know how to balance your health sacrifice (like avoid casting more than one BiP at a time)
but with all these health sacrifices (like signet of agony) you'll definetely need some good healing, i'd turn to grenths/chirons balance for the answer, its very helpful in conjunction with blood magic. first lower your health with sacrificial spells and then equalize with balance
yes there is a 60 second recharge on balance which means you'll have to time it right, but if you time it well, and properly combine it with some other spells it can bring an opponent to very low hp fairly fast

o ya and ranger without expertise=useless

walder · Apr 23, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

PvE is easy for a minion master.

Nec/Mo

Death 16
SR 11
Heal 8

Animate Bone Fiend
Heal Area
Verata's Sacrifice
Blood of the Master
Taste of Death
Death Nova
Deathly Swarm
Deathly Chill

Pretty much this is heavy on the minion heals a little extra damage from Death Nova if you minion is going down too fast or you need a heal with Taste. Swarm and Chill are good enough in PvE to get your first couple corpses, after than your minions will kill the rest.

Nash · Apr 23, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Greentongue:

Rend isn't in Blood Magic.
Renewal can really screw your team over. So can Zephyr.

Well, you've got your ritual spam for energy... But what are you going to do with all that energy? I don't see the point. Do heavy energy managent if you actually have some use for the energy. Seems all your build does is remove enchantments, mess up your team's skills, and get huge amounts of energy for no use whatsoever.

Have you defined a main role of the character at all?

Greentongue · Apr 23, 2005, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

Greentongue:
Rend isn't in Blood Magic.
Renewal can really screw your team over. So can Zephyr.

dang! Forgot to change that to Curses.
Why would you screw your team if it wasn't a PUG? Enchantment removal can be worked around if it is expected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

Well, you've got your ritual spam for energy... But what are you going to do with all that energy? I don't see the point. Do heavy energy managent if you actually have some use for the energy. Seems all your build does is remove enchantments, mess up your team's skills, and get huge amounts of energy for no use whatsoever.

Have you defined a main role of the character at all?

Can you have too much energy??

Besides Ranger skills without Expertise is expensive.

The main role of the build is Enchantment and Hex removal.
The fact that you feel it would screw your own team, makes it an even better of an idea. It implies that it is unexpected.
Anything that can be removed and is assumed to always be available, makes for battle control.
There are many things that can be used that are not Enchantments or Hexes.

Nash · Apr 23, 2005, 04:03 PM // 16:03

You can run enchantment/hex removal on another character. It doesn't warrant a build dedicated to it. And with ritual removal you have to run a no-enchantment no-hex team build for it to work.

Krileon Reborn · Apr 23, 2005, 04:03 PM // 16:03

N/R are pretty good for PvE. Only mission I struggled with was that one where your in the castle and the prince tells you to go out and kill that large group of foes with the named. That was like 30 enemies.. to much for 1 guy lol, but I managed to trick um and drag them to the prince lol. Anyway my ranger pet makes of nice use to help my damage. Sure he can die fairly easy when swarmed pretty bad, but getting my first kill is very easy to do with him. When I got Call of Brutallity he became extremely useful.

Also when i completed a lot of the missions and got to the zone (i can't seam to remember their names) with the snow wolfs and such. Those foes where pretty hard. I mean I took a full henchy group with me as well and them foes seamed to dish out some damage, but I was also only level10 and still using spells from old ascalon lol.

What I tend to do is get the enemies attention on my pet then hit them with deathly swarm till 1 drops. Throw a heal on pet then make a skele. By time my first skele is up I am ready for a second. I constantly keep my army going. Anytime there is a corpse I use it so I have minions all the time.

Not the greatest in pvp, but there is a build that can do pretty good (not gonan compare with a marksman ranger or anything lol, but he'd be more useful then what others would think) BUT yet again not gonna release my build =D

oh heres a build i thought would be pretty cool.. lemme know what yas think
Necro/Mesmer
Soul Reaping 4(+1 Rune)
Blood Magic 15(+3 rune
Illusuion 15(+3 rune)
Life Siphon = 24 sec, -3 enemy hp regen, +3 self hp regen
Conjure Phantasm = 14 sec, -5 enemy hp regen
Phantom Pain = 10 sec, -4 enemy hp regen, 20 sec deep wound
Fragility = 20 sec, enemy take 34 dmg for each new condition or recovered one
Clumsiness = 13 sec, interrupt, 92 damage
Fevered Dreams = 16 sec, any new condition target suffers spread to nearby foes
Vampiric Gaze = steal 60 health
Blood Ritual = 14 sec, -17% max hp, +3 energy regen

Greentongue · Apr 23, 2005, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausaletus Rex

Also, Oath Shot's been "fixed" so that it's no longer tied to Marksmanship. It was a bug that affected a lot of skills that was the culprit there, not a misleading skill description. It was *meant* to work with Expertise it's just that certain skills had their linked attribute replaced by the attribute of the weapon you were wielding.

Dang!

Guess I'll have to come up with a different way to take advantage of using dying Nature Rituals to fuel Soul Reaping.

Jackell · Apr 24, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Most people are convinced that Necros suck at PvP, because most necro's out there do suck at it.

Mainly, everyone who has ever heard a Marilyn Manson song has played a necromancer at one point or another, just because of their apperance, without actually paying any attention to how to use one. If you want to play a necro because of how they look, good luck.

Pay attention to your skills, and figure out exactly how they will benefit you. You have to strike just at the right time to play one, it's not easy. But with precision timing, you can be a huge asset to your team. Play it wrong, even just a little, and your wasting their time.

Alias_X · Apr 24, 2005, 09:37 PM // 21:37

I would go with ranger because they have hte range, survival skills, and also the pets.

Ander Deathblade · Apr 24, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krileon Reborn

Necro/Mesmer
Soul Reaping 4(+1 Rune)
Blood Magic 15(+3 rune
Illusuion 15(+3 rune)
Life Siphon = 24 sec, -3 enemy hp regen, +3 self hp regen
Conjure Phantasm = 14 sec, -5 enemy hp regen
Phantom Pain = 10 sec, -4 enemy hp regen, 20 sec deep wound
Fragility = 20 sec, enemy take 34 dmg for each new condition or recovered one
Clumsiness = 13 sec, interrupt, 92 damage
Fevered Dreams = 16 sec, any new condition target suffers spread to nearby foes
Vampiric Gaze = steal 60 health
Blood Ritual = 14 sec, -17% max hp, +3 energy regen

first of all, you cannot use a rune in your secondary.
second of all, that's a very bad build. I can't see the forest through the trees.

Asher · Apr 24, 2005, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Primary Necromancers suck. End of argument.

Last Beta - 4-15,16,17-05 I played a 100% pure Necromancer. Maxed out Blood,Death and Curses as high as I could. Didn't use minions, mostly cuses and life/energy steals.

And guess what, I was the one weakening the targets before the warriors and rangers even got there. Necro and Mesmers make hellacious Target Callers, cause they can call it, debuff it and soften it up for the rest of the party.

Oh yeah, with that build and the rest of my team we held HoH thru 4 battles.

So don't be tellin' people it's a waste of time until you've played it. A GvG battle with LotD and a one on one with one of their primary Necros would also change your viewpoint.

One more thing, it's not the profession that matters it's what skills you combo with and how well you execute those skills.

Asher Out

Apr 24, 2005, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher

Last Beta - 4-15,16,17-05 I played a 100% pure Necromancer. Maxed out Blood,Death and Curses as high as I could. Didn't use minions, mostly cuses and life/energy steals.

Thats nice, now ask me if I care.

Quote:

And guess what, I was the one weakening the targets before the warriors and rangers even got there. Necro and Mesmers make hellacious Target Callers, cause they can call it, debuff it and soften it up for the rest of the party.

Good, so you played around with 3 attributes while all the secondary necros did what you just stated off of just 2 skills. Have fun being inefficient and scrubby.

Quote:

Oh yeah, with that build and the rest of my team we held HoH thru 4 battles.

Anyone can hold HoH quite easily-and you only held it through 4 battles? Come on, atleast try not to make yourself look as bad as you really are.

Quote:

So don't be tellin' people it's a waste of time until you've played it. A GvG battle with LotD and a one on one with one of their primary Necros would also change your viewpoint.

Ok lets see:

I've played every class in the game extensively save Primary Warriors.
I know the ins and outs of the necro class pretty well-especially being that it was the first class I played with alot.
Making it seem as though because LotD ran primary necros means its good is probably one of the most retarded things I've ever heard. I dont care what LotD runs. Instead of making scrub statements like that why dont you go find out why LotD ran primary necros, find out how why they worked and then come back and contribute something useful to this forum.

Quote:

One more thing, it's not the profession that matters it's what skills you combo with and how well you execute those skills.

Thats nice, except that all the proffesions dont share the same skill list. Stop trying to sound like you know what you're talking about and instead stop trying to be a scrub.

Quote:

Asher Out

Good riddance.

Vermilion Okeanos · Apr 24, 2005, 10:42 PM // 22:42

The only reason I would ever go necro primary is for the necro runes... but what you need those rune for?? the only one seem more satisfying would probably be having higher level death summon from death magic... but those summon arent exactly very helpful in PvP.

Taranis · Apr 24, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Ya'll are SO wrong (well atleast the people from the first page, couldn't be arsed to read the rest

), Necro/Warriors can be deadly, I've seen atleast 2 of them in random PvP beating up Warrior/Monks, okay the 2nd one didn't but the W/M was like "Wow good figth Necro/War"...